Here we go again, null sec players whinging about high sec. Can i remind you elitist ignorant narrow minded cowards - that in the event of people randomly working together to achieve a common goal, they should be rewarded... It is human nature to try and do things quicker and more efficiently so why do we constantly track backwards in eve when people do this?

VG sites were capable of being "Blitzed" becuase of a number of reason:
1. People invested in their equipment to make the job quicker
2. People worked together in their hundreds - whole communities were created to make isk and whole communities were created when supposidly the economy was breaking with all that extra isk pffffft. and finally
3. It was the only source of PvE that people could get into quickly make a few sites and experience other parts of the game.

How is that any different to real life.... we use a process to get something done and we are constantly looking to tune the process...

For the love of god will you move away from this Bullsh1t model of Risk versus Reward.... This model is so far of the truth in eve in so many ways i get embarrassed everytime i read a "but its RvR, we deserve more"..... STFU... Ability to work together versus Reward is one you should be concentrating on. and while you are at it... Have you ever considered looking at the demographics of average players per Prime time, Average corp size, average time in game per evening,??? It may show you that a lot of people who play the game for hours upon hours in null sec move to high sec to create isk -> call me obvious but that is a damn issue with null sec.... null sec is broken becuase vast regions are unpopulated and useless.... it is human pschology that when people make a choice in how they are going to play the game the "availability" of product / service is a high characterist when making the choice.

AND FINALLY - the issue isn't or wasn't in pay out per hour.... it was the ability for people to jump in sites and "blitz" them.... Blitzer fleets carried two notable signatures: Legion Fleet or Mach Fleet...... I dunno, is it really that obvious that perhaps these ship types shouldnt be allowed in VG sites...

All i would want is for people to get over this perception that High sec is safe.... it doesnt matter where you are in the game null sec low sec high sec wh space there are mechanics in all of these scenarios that makes jumping into a ship in high sec just as risky as jumping into a ship in null sec or low sec.... There is no diference.

Wha would i do?

Simply make VGs a site that is a stepping stone towards the more difficult ones and not allow the tier 2 BS in the sites... Conventional BS gangs cleared the sites in 10minutes+, I would even consider bringing the dificulty of assualts down making the numbers in assualt fleet such that its a VG fleet with 3 or 4 extra pilots. not like it is at the moment where it is 10. Have you ever tried recruiting 20 people? It takes forever again - another reason why assualts are not seen to be "ideal" for the time i have before the kids get back......

People like things to be quick not to be sat waiting for ever.... i like the idea of having assualts with 12 people (same as vgs) but those 12 have to without a shadow of doubt work together.... any split dps or incorrectly setup ship slows or even destroys the fleet. whilst VGs have the same risk - just not to the same degree.

blah blah blah

This post is yet again turning into the "Risk versus Reward" - "high sec versus, low sec versus null sec" argument and to be honest its getting old.

The damn activity that is completed in high sec is the same activity that is completed in low sec and null sec.... they all require people to work together to achieve and recieve pay out. Low sec and null sec have a higher payout....May be they should be higher so that they are more attractive to people who want the "isk/hour" model.

The fact is high sec incursions have the highest density of players and it makes for fleeting up and getting going a hell of a lot easier than if it was in low sec or null sec simply becuase of the difficulty of moving into the areas.

People dont move to null sec becuase eve then becomes a military ran operation and if you think that is sustainable then great. If not the game is played in High sec flirting between trying to make ends meat and then being able to enjoy other aspects of the game.

There is a huge perception that becuase its in "high sec" its risk free - the fact is any aspect of the game that is done correctly is risk free... But there are many aspects of the game that require groups of people to work together.

Get over this Risk versus Reward model the game has evolved to the point now that "Group Based Activity versus Reward" is a more fitting model.

A simple mechanic to make it so once a group of people have achieved more than lets say 10 completed incursion sites in an hour the payout are reduced exponentially would certainly reduce payout....

Nice read GÇô Let me point out a few things:

When writing a post in a discussion it is good practice not to assume.

Since I have been involved in high sec groups, low sec groups, worm hole groups and null sec groups I have a varied background and am perfectly capable of contributing without sounding condescending, something that you may wish to consider when contributing to a discussion.

From all that writing I took the following points:
Group based activity versus Reward already runs.
Null sec is condemned to hundreds of people working together to achieve an infrastructure.
Infrastructure is used to secure a higher ISK/Hour.

Question then GÇô Why do I see a lot of Test Alliance pilots in High sec running Incursions?

I'll be your Post Necro for this evening. (insert evil maniacal laugh here) Back on #141,

Have you logi'd incursions? Have you ran anything above VG's? Or are you just one of the many people that are commenting on something you know almost nothing about?

P.S. Note to the smart ass that hired a merc corp... I have other characters I can run incursions on... Don't think that a war dec will stop me.

This rant does not even touch that worm hole blue loot IS GREATER THEN INCURSION LOOT WAS AS AN ISK INJECTOR
and skirts the real culpable causes of inflation. If the real ISK hoses have to be capped instead of killing whole communities of people working together WH's & bounties should have seen the 10% nerf before Incursions did

Hell even CCP Sound wave has mentioned more then once Incursion ISK well:

Your FC is well, He flys a CNR, Enough said really.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15444001

well, the HG slave set was lost in PVP, but still. I couldn't have bought it if it wasn't for incursions

http://gyazo.com/872b7881331eff7e59035e5ecb8076cd

http://gyazo.com/03fa7b0f67fb6e1bd772a1882d17418a

http://gyazo.com/c8f0d8e51380d8ad4fbcc92e728c35ec

http://gyazo.com/091ad9dea5833fa2f08f924c53bec263

Not that I need explain, but I don't think battleclinic is the best system for API verification. I also don't think Battleclinic updates NPC kills at all.

Lol, I almost forgot about my poor Hakim's stasis web. :(

Slave's are fail on a Bhaalgorn?

Are you a moron or just a idiot?

Are you aware that people fit ships different, Not like a little lamb like yourself.

Exactly, It is used in many events, High sec, WH, Etc this does not mean you MUST have Tali's. If you go into a WH ofc.

I took a short break from the incursion community and helped my alliance settle a Wh, then went back and did some incursions about a month ago. So I've not been "Farming" incursions. And when I go to incursions I run in Assault fleets and higher. So I'm not doing the "Grinding" that every incursion runner is charged with.

Also, you say that I lost 2 battleships as if it was nothing, did you look at some of the modules destroyed. An officer web worth at current guess 2.5 billion isk, A-type EANM's worth 1 billion T2 rigs on all but 1 of the ships. Both guardians fitted with A-type adaptive nano platings.

I do other things than just incursions, I also pvp from time to time... I'm not an "Isk hoarder" another charge for most incursion runners, think I've got just under a billion isk liquid at the moment.

Stop crying in every Incursion thread.

It's late, so perhaps I wasn't being clear, and I admitted that it would likely be a bit... much. Not trying to break the economy, so maybe x2 or 1.5x would be better. In any case, it is clear the the activity is not profitable enough (because no one is doing them - period). Nerfing High Sec side of this won't change that.

But I was talking about the "super alpha fleet" which has 11 people (at least - which would slip that payout and lower it significantly) and several offgrid boosters while using about 30billion in ships to do so. Don't forget that Sansha also scrams many of these people, so they wouldn't be able to disengage without killing the sansha first (meanwhile, their logistic chain is incredibly vulnerable and the reps must flow for them to all not die)

I don't think it would be unreasonable for your as-well-put-together-as-anyone-dares fleet to make about 100mil, and the exceptionally shiny to make a bit more than that.

I think what would be more likely is people take 15-20 ships into the 10 man site if they could.

Failing that, just letting decent loot drop from vanguards, so that they have the occasional massive boost rather than a high sustained income, would be a good carrot.

The guy who multiboxes wormholes claims that the rewards of incursions is too high compared to wormholes, and also claims that CCP shouldn't listen to the people actually running incursions because they're obviously biased.

That said, please do not pretend you are too small a community to have a significant impact on anything. You were contributing 9 trillion ISK to the economy. Whilst not as much as the amount added via bounties, for the size of your community that is a terrifying amount of ISK.

I have lived in a C5 for a year and i know very well what im talking about. The only area i have very little experience in is Low-sec. Don't assume anything just because my sec status isn't that bad. And im not abusing the word risk, just getting into perspective something that everyone forgot to mention.

"Oh incursions runners fly in shiny ships",
"no risk in incursions",
"shiny fleets pwnage in 5mins in NCO's",
"oh shiny fleets have no risk",
"ISK/H op in highsec incursions due to shiny fleets blitzing"

can you see the patterns here? Im sure the same would fair for wormhole corps who would use multibillion ships while doing sleeper sites in relative safety, just cause ppl don't know how to live in a wormhole don't expect me to be a complete newb and throw around snarking coments like that. Get your facts straight then we will talk =)

Useless posting on your part, either say something constructive or don't post at all, and i used to live in a c5, i left when they moved to c6. Sorry for derailing from the topic, either way the isk made in incursions was too much, but it was definitly not risk-free, i lost a bunch of ships in them, im sure most people can say the same...

All my accounts are now cancelled. My main (60k SP will be biomassed in the next days...

hi troll